Re: new version of HST proposal posted - COMMENTS

From: Greg Aldering (aldering@panisse.lbl.gov)
Date: Fri Jan 26 2007 - 14:34:23 PST

  • Next message: Saul Perlmutter: "The HST Cluster SN proposal was submitted on time (6 minutes early!)"

    Hi Dan,

    Yes, thanks, I saw that paragraph in the paper.

    However, 60% of early-types having some dust doesn't really
    strengthen our case for why all our cluster elliptical SNe
    will be dust-free, and E(B-V) ~ 0.2 is a lot of dust from a
    cosmology perspective. So I wanted to see the actual
    distribution of E(B-V) from the fits to determine whether a
    stronger statement can be made.

    Cheers,

    Greg

    On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Daniel Stern wrote:

    >
    > i just searched for the word "dust" in alessandro's paper and found the
    > following relevant paragraph:
    >
    > "We have also investigated the effect of dust extinction on the best-fit
    > photometric-stellar masses by including a fourth free parameter, 0.0<
    > E(B-V)< 0.4, following the Cardelli et al. (1989) prescription. By
    > performing the fit on 28 galaxies for which IRAC photometry is available
    > in all 4 bands, we find that in $ {\sim } $$ 40\%$ of the cases E(B-V)=0
    > gives the best fit. In the remaining cases, masses which are lower by $0.2
    > \pm 0.1$ dex are found, with corresponding $E(B-V) \le 0.2$. This test
    > supports the validity of the dust-free model assumption, as also widely
    > used in the literature for early-type galaxies."
    >
    > --> so half the time he gets no dust and the other half of the time he
    > gets E(B-V)<0.2.
    >
    > On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Greg Aldering wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > Hi Piero,
    > >
    > >
    > > I took a look at thne Rettura et al paper hoping to find
    > > the fitted E(B-V) values for each galaxy, but apparently
    > > they are not published. Would you, Peter, Dan or Adam happen
    > > to have them?
    > >
    > > Thanks,
    > >
    > > Greg
    > >
    > >
    > > On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Piero Rosati wrote:
    > >
    > > > Hi everyone,
    > > > fantastic proposal!
    > > >
    > > > I have 2 comments, 1 correction and a question for Marc regarding Fig.
    > > > 3a:
    > > >
    > > > 1)
    > > > Regarding the evidence of no or little dust in ellipticals, we say:
    > > >
    > > > "Recent Spitzer data (Temi et al. 2005) confirms that most nearby
    > > > ellipticals have the SED’s expected for dust-free
    > > > systems."
    > > > This was also found in early-types at z~1, and I think it would be
    > > > worth mentioning it.
    > > > Rettura et al. 2006 (A&A 458, 717-726) used SED fitting with 10
    > > > bands, including the 4 IRAC bands, of 30 early-type galaxies at
    > > > 0.8<z<1.2 in the field (mostly GOODS) and showed evidence of *no or
    > > > very modest dust extinction*. This is the relevant paragraph in that
    > > > paper, just to save you the time:
    > > >
    > > > We have also investigated the effect of dust extinction on the best-
    > > > fit photometric-stellar masses by including a fourth free parameter,
    > > > 0.0 < E( B − V ) < 0.4, following the Cardelli et al. (1989)
    > > > prescription. By performing the fit on 28 galaxies for which IRAC
    > > > photometry is available in all 4 bands, we find that in ∼40% of the
    > > > cases E( B − V ) 0 gives the best fit. In the remaining cases,
    > > > masses which are lower by 0.2 ± 0.1 dex are found, with corresponding
    > > > E( B − V ) ≤ 0.2. This test supports the validity of the dust-free
    > > > model assumption, as also widely used in the literature for early-
    > > > type galaxies.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > 2)
    > > > Mass-richness relation plot. It's nice, and the scatter/outliers not
    > > > surprising given the nature of any richness parameter. We don't want
    > > > to give the impression though this will be the kind of plots which
    > > > will provide the "mass calibration" of future Xray/SZ surveys. Best
    > > > mass indicators are currently physical quantities extracted from X-
    > > > ray and SZ observations: T, Mgas, Lx,Y, Yx (the so called Yx=Tx*Mgas
    > > > being the most fashionable these days). I doubt that anyone will use
    > > > n_gal in the era of precision cosmology. This is mentioned at the end
    > > > of the Cluster Science section (pag.6) but it should rather be here.
    > > > So I think we should add in this section something like:
    > > >
    > > > Chandra and XMM observations of these clusters already in hand and
    > > > upcoming SZ observations will allow us to probe for the first time at
    > > > 1<z<1.5 the relation between fiducial lensing masses and physical
    > > > parameters derived form X-ray and SZ measurements (Lx, Tx, Mgas, Y).
    > > > These relations provide the critical calibrations for precision
    > > > cosmology with next generation cluster surveys.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > -Correction:
    > > > Pag.6: The GTO program has *four* clusters at z>1
    > > >
    > > > -Question for Marc: the caption of Fig.3a (VLT based CMR) reads
    > > > "CMR in this same cluster using data from the VLT FORS and ISAAC
    > > > (transformed to the ACS i,z passbands)"
    > > > FORS has already i&z bands, how did you use ISAAC (J&K bands) to
    > > > "transform" to ACS i&z ??
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Piero
    > > >
    > > > On Jan 25, 2007, at 11:32 AM, Tony Spadafora wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Cluster search group,
    > > > >
    > > > > The working draft of the cycle 16 proposal on
    > > > > http://supernova.lbl.gov/HSTclusterSN/proposals/HSTc16/clusters/text/
    > > > > (HSTclusterSN/HSTclusterSN)
    > > > >
    > > > > has Wednesday's reworking of various sections. Comments are
    > > > > welcome. There are still embedded internal questions and ?'s in
    > > > > various places. Sci Just will need to be cut a little (~11 lines).
    > > > > Some of the figures need work. All of the captions and references
    > > > > will need to be checked.
    > > > >
    > > > > -Tony
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Fri Jan 26 2007 - 14:35:10 PST